<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 17, 2005 10:30 PM: Message edited by: matricks ]</font>
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<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 17, 2005 10:30 PM: Message edited by: matricks ]</font>
People treat stars differently -- that's why they keep that kind of attitude.
They demand it/we give it to them/they demand it/ etc. etc.
Rodge said:
"You know, for me DW is an asshole but I still continue to listen him"
Do you mean Dave Weckl or did you mean DC (chambers)?
Hi Guys,
I mean Dave Weckl.
Hey Rodge,
Tu es un brigand! [img]wink.gif[/img]
Peace & Love [img]graemlins/angel.gif[/img]
I'm sure with a little time and research, you could find a way to get to Dennis and tell him how you feel. Even if it's just an email address. I've always found it rewarding to express myself personally to the person who has offended me. He may actually learn something from it.
I've met Dennis a couple of times and he was cool. I've been to a couple of clinics, one with a band, and one without. He shines in a band situation.
I repeat, he is not good at verbally articulating his playing. That is awhat makes a good clinician. Also having a structure. Dennis's clinics are very unstructured. They do not start at A and go to B.
But Dennis is an incredible drummer. He doesn't read because he doesn't need to. He plays entirely in the musical domain. Dennis is an awesome musician. He plays things that technically should not be able to be played, but he does it.
If you have not seen Dennis with a jazz group live, then you cannot understand his drumming genius.
Flamtriplet wrote:<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] EXACTLY!!Quote:
If you have not seen Dennis with a jazz group live, then you cannot understand his drumming genius.
Once when I was 18 or so, I met a drummer that I wanted to see play live for several years.
I was late to see my freind open for the next band whom this "drummer" was playing with.
Standing there talking to my freind, I saw the "drummer" and decieded to go over and talk to him. After giving him my "I'm not worthy" routine, I asked him a question about playing in odd time. After he smugly surmised a response to me, he then madly asked...... "So??..... have you figured me out yet??", not once.... but twice looking at me with a maddog face. I was taken aback in awe for a couple of seconds and then realized that I'd just gotten insulted by my drumming hero........ and then like a light switch..... fired off a loud F*** YOU!!! Then I walked away. I was pissed. Started telling my friend what an assh**e this guy was.
Back then, I didn't take too much sh** from anybody.
Recently I re-met this drummer and had a 180 degree experience. One of the nicest guys I've ever met. Had a really good experience.
I guess the moral of my story is..... some people have bad days, some people say things that are completely in-appropriate, and some people..... thru enough humiliation or whatever monumental changes they go thru in their lives, end up changing for the better.
If Dennis really did say something like that, and if I was in the audience, he would have heard something equally as offensive from me. I guess I'm still a trouble maker like that. Being 6'2" and around 250 lbs helps too!!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I remember being at a Freddie Gee clinic when Dennis behaved in a similar fashion.
His playing was incredible but the clinic was boring and DC gave a completely innaccurate definition of linear playing (to DC linear=playingover the bar and using sextuplets?!?!)
One thing did stick in my mind.
Someone asked him why he was so good and he joked
'maybe coz nobody liked me at school so I had a lot of time to practice' (was this really a joke?)
Have you ever thought that incredible technique is not the product of an ordered mind but the outcome of insecurities and we should not expect our heroes to always be well balanced individuals
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">WTF! That's freaking creepy dude. What was he trying to communicate there? I'd love to know who this was if you feel like emailing me in private.Quote:
Originally posted by WecklsMechanic:
After giving him my "I'm not worthy" routine, I asked him a question about playing in odd time. After he smugly surmised a response to me, he then madly asked...... "So??..... have you figured me out yet??", not once.... but twice looking at me with a maddog face.
Even though i kinda participated in the Rant on Dennis, he still is one of my favorites when it comes to 80's fusion records.
I Think the Blue Matter record with John Scofield from 85 or something like that, is still one of the most enjoyable recordings from that period, so tasty playing from Dennis!.
Dennis is a GIG player, not a teacher, but he has enormous amounts of Fans out there, that it's inevitable for him doing least a couple of clinics a year.
I think that's a much better way of dealing with this. If one has an issue with someone, it's usually more effective to talk about it with him or her. Talking with the rest of us won't change their behavior, nor get the kid an apology, if that's what one is after. And if it?s not worth the trouble to discuss with them, then it certainly isn?t worth the trouble of bringing it up to the rest of us.
Well, if those instances are indeed true, that is some appalling behavior. I am only addressing this as if this scenario were true - & it HAS happened with name guys in the past, hasn't it...
I can understand that some guys may get a little put off being interrupted by someone, yelling out for them to "play some more" when it's time for them to speak [after playing 45 minutes of mind-pummeling stuff]...but to take it out on someone who's there to see you, well that's a big faux paus, a rather large, stinky, no-no of a t*rd.
He is still one of the baddest bad-arses ever, tho...this is not in question, nor is it open for discussion [img]wink.gif[/img] . Check out the Scofield discs - 'nuff said. He does some busy stuff & some of his blazing licks on there, but man, that pocket is steaming along like a groovin' freight train.
Forget the clinics [which are cool in & of themselves, & "are what they are"], where one is bound to show at least some repetition. Even VC & DW, altho they tend to orchestrate things differently most of the time. Check him [DC] in recorded & band situations. That Scof stuff [Blue Matter, Loud Jazz, Pick Hits Live Tokyo] - sheesh. Clinics are always ging to incorporate the "drummy stuff"...we should all know & be at ease with this understanding by now. ;P So it's really no big deal to me that DC "has his ways of doing those things he does." He is still a fine musician. Big, phat, groovaliscious feel.
But in no way does this ever excuse any of this type of behaviour.
I have to admit when I last saw him, after the show he was a bit "stand-offish" to some...he wasn't rude, but there seemed to be something there...
I have seen Gregg, Ashbaugh, & Mang many times, & they would never dream of acting in such a manner.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True, that.Quote:
People treat stars differently -- that's why they keep that kind of attitude.
They demand it/we give it to them/they demand it/ etc
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like that, AE! Sometimes genius does "come with a price," doesn't it!Quote:
Have you ever thought that incredible technique is not [necessarily] the product of an ordered mind but [also] the outcome of insecurities and we should not expect our heroes to always be well balanced individuals
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I completeyly agree with your ultimate thought, here, except to say that miusic is somewhat an important, driving force in life, but in "the scale of things" extremely important, total agreement there.Quote:
I'm just playing drums. It's not like it matters or affects the world." Why not have a positive attitude and keep the ego in check? We're not doing brain surgery here
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What?! Me?! NEVerrrrr [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]Quote:
But, let's not treat him like a criminal ! We all make stupid mistakes. Even on our board, every once and a while, we come out with some unreflected comments once and a while
Hey Weck'sMech...you can go with me to a clinic any day! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 26, 2005 11:06 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
Klemme.... I second that. The dude is a bad mofo on Scofields CD, no doubt.
Fuse..... Seeing as how musicians are usually a pretty laxed/swirly/earthy bunch, I don't think any rough housing would be ness. But don't worry buddy, I got your back!! [img]wink.gif[/img]
Andy Edwards said......
"Have you ever thought that incredible technique is not the product of an ordered mind but the outcome of insecurities and we should not expect our heroes to always be well balanced individuals"
I think you have a point here. But it goes many ways. I think our other influences (i.e. how we drive a car, weather we practice martial arts as Vinnie and Buddy both did, did or do drugs, or how we were raised) in our lifes greatly effect our playing and interpretation.
Not to be confused as such, but, look at the movie Rain Man and Dustin Hoffmans character of an Idiot Savant. Could count cards (or anything for that matter) in an un-human fashion, but was certainly not the stellar social man.
Jaco Pastorius comes to mind.
I remember a sad story Bisonette told me once about the week before he died. Greg said he had talked with Steve Smith who was gigging in Florida that week also where Jaco was. I guess Steve saw Jaco walking down the street pushing a shopping cart with a ghetto blaster playing Weather Report amongst the people walking down the sidewalk. Jaco was yelling at people saying, "HEY MAN!!! THATS ME MAN!!!" in a delirious fashion. I guess Steve stopped the limo he was in and picked up Jaco and tried to calm him down.
As we all know.. later that week, he was killed by a bouncer when he was beligerant and probably wasted out of his mind. Certainly not a reason for a musclehead to pick on such a scrawny guy to that level, but it happened..........
A genius on the bass that will never be repeated, but none the less, a little off to say the least.
This, "hey, play some more" all brings to mind the Vinnie clinic in the mid 80's on the red Yammies where he is discussing odd times and in mid sentence some goof yells out, "Play some!!"
Vinnie then immediately goes, "OK"...and walks to his kit." The tone of Vinne was, "Dude...chill, I'm getting to that, can I talk for a second here."
Pocket??
Are you talking about the Zildian Day video from like 1984?? Where someone asks him a question about keeping it together in odd time?? When Vince starts giving the "play combos of 2 and 3" advice, Then somebody yells out "show us"!!??
If so.... I thought that was always classic Vinnie. A kidding guy with a razor sharp sense of humor. He kinda reminded me of a kid that just got scolded for talking and not doing. So he immediatly says, "OK, ok.... I'm going".... then him and Landers continue to just slaughter the "time".
Love it man!!!
That's it! The sharp, quick wit and "in the moment" reflection was all Vince.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 20, 2005 02:05 AM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]</font>
Actually, it's from the Z-Day in NYC '87 vid.
But you guys are close enough in thought! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]
After VC's played to the 1st track, it's talk time. Some guy in the audience asks Vinnie about his approach to odd-time. VC says that his approach to it is really no different than anyone else's that can play it, that he just subdivides it into groups of 2's & 3's based on what he'd heard others do in the past; he barely gets the word "past" out of his mouth when some other guy in the audience promptly interrupts by yelling out, "DO IT!!!" To which VC promptly raises his brow [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] , throws up a hand, & quickly says, "OK - I'll do it!" & heads behind the kit [to absoluitely slaughter that TL fonkay-fusion synchopated bass line in primarily 7]...it is a rather curiously funny moment, no doubt... [img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 21, 2005 01:39 AM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
Talking of Vinnie's fast wit...
It always makes me laugh watching the Buddy Rich Memorial Scholorship concert when Vinnie finishes playing and addresses the crowd. Someone shouts out, (Blatently talking the piss)
"Nice suit Vinnie!"
To which he replies (as cool as a cucumber)
"Thanks, my mother and father-in-law bought it for me"...
Never quite understood wether Vinnie was being sarcastic and meant to be funny, or if he was actually telling the truth and didn't expect a laugh???
MP
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I heard that he wrecked his suit earlier that day (spilled something on it) and had to get something last minute. So, it may be true...?Quote:
Originally posted by Groovemeister:
"Thanks, my mother and father-in-law bought it for me"...
Never quite understood wether Vinnie was being sarcastic and meant to be funny, or if he was actually telling the truth and didn't expect a laugh???
MP
I joined this thread rather late, but here's my two cents (another Chambers story):
It was the Pacific Drum Fest in '98 or so, where a handful of the world's best were performing. Chambers was on the roster and played for a mind-numbing amount of time (his solo must have been 45mins or more) and after player he took the mic to answer some questions. When an audience member asked him something about his kit he went on a little rant about how Pearl could not provide what he wanted, I can't remember the whole thing, but it ended something like this:
"...and the toms are... I don't play those toms. Those toms are 8x8, 10x10, 12x12 etc... rock toms or something, I play shallower toms - ANOTHER thing that Pearl could not provide me with."
You could hear gasps and whispers in the audience, he was clearly cutting into Pearl on a couple of occasions... and I don't totally blame him, because they should be able to provide his kit... but still, pretty intense moment, infront of hundreds, and it made Pearl look terrible... his own Endorsement Co!
The way I see it is that everyone has their ups and downs, and moods... no one is perfect. I would have stood up for that 10 year old kid at the clinic... surprised nobody did. I'm sure he was there with his parents too. Now, that is something that is hard, if not impossible to forgive. The problem is, one of these "drum gods" is rude for two seconds, and it gets around the world, well - at least the drum community and then they look bad no matter what!
Nobody likes egomaniacs... problem is Dennis is on top of his game, so it's easy for him.
Uh, no, Fuze, I think it IS from '84. I don't think Vinnie or Gadd took part in '87 (or was it '89?)
The biggest thing to me is when talking to someone young and impressionable, those words will stick with you for life.
I know a guy who is an absolute fruit-cake, i mean, this dude has really messed himself up with drugs... his mind is really 'different'. Anyways, he told me a story of when his dad took him, as a kid, to some little drum-gala thing, and Buddy was playing there. Well, this guy i know was playing around on a set, and Buddy walks by and says "You'll never be any good, kid".
... Now, even though this guy i am talking about is a weirdo now, i believe the story (he tells it enough, for God's sake). Anyways, can you imagine being a kid who worships someone and having them, with their ADULT MIND and MENTALITY, berate you like that. It is like mentally beating up a little kid. And the thing is, the older you get and think about it, the more you will understand how horrible that it was, that you were embarrassed by one of your idols like that... not something that gets better with time because when the sting wears off, you still will be able to glean more of the insult once you age enough to understand how truly rude and unthoughtful those words were.
Luckily, i have had great experiences with all my heros, but God knows if i even would be playing drums still if one of those things happened to me when i was a kid.
My bad, TH; u r correct; the Zildjian Day in NY[C], with Acuna, Tommy Campbell, VC, Cobham, & Gadd; the back of the box lists '87, but the actual beginning of the vid states 5-20-84... [img]cool.gif[/img]
-------------------
Yeah, mat; for all you know, that incident may have been part & parcel as to how the guy's turned out?!
Now, I'm not looking for excuses nor apologetics, but one never knows how an improper or snide comment can adversely affect some porr hapless innocent young person...it can & often is very psychologically damaging to say the least...& depending upon the "bounce-back" qualities of the kid's personality, it can do great harm emotionally. While I'm not saying to protect your kids from every little thing, this is clearly out of bounds...
Everyone has bad moments or days, but let's rem to never take it out on a young person... [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_down.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/grrr.gif[/img]
Unless of course they are ridiculously cocky & deserve it... [img]tongue.gif[/img] [OK, now, I'm only actually talking about a little "humble-pie," nothing extreme...]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 22, 2005 04:48 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
Was at the Weckl gig on Saturday 1-22-05. There was this kid, couldn't have been older than 5 or 6 years old snapping shots of dave during the gig with a disposable camera. You could tell Weckl was a hero of his.
Me, my finace', and some friends hung with Dave after the gig for a while. The little boy wandered his way up to talk to dave with his older brother. He had a pair of Dave's Vic Firth signature sticks. He had asked dave if the sticks were good for him, so dave started to play the table while asking him how long he had played and what he was practicing at the time. Dave said he thought these (his own signature sticks) were too heavy for him and that he thought that he should get some lighter ones. Then dave proceeded to show the kid a proper double stroke, all the while joking and being very attentive to him.
I think the big difference between guys like Dave, Vinnie, and Dennis is.... Dave has a child. He knows how damaging it could/would be for a person in his position to give a negative experience to a budding mind. I know that these things make a big difference to a kid, because I was one of those young adults that got the bad side of a legend once too.
A lot of the musicians I have met who were famous or had incredible technique seem to be driven by their own insecurities about themselves.
They seek approval in the fame or respect.
But any kind of fame also brings with it a loss of authorship of onself.
By this I mean large amounts of people are suddenly discussing your personality with you having any control over it.
We are doing this now.
For someone who is insecure this is a terrible sitution to be in.
but, hey, welcome to the music business...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's nice. But you forgot the part where Dave kicked the kid in the mouth. (joke)Quote:
Originally posted by WecklsMechanic:
Was at the Weckl gig on Saturday 1-22-05. There was this kid, couldn't have been older than 5 or 6 years old snapping shots of dave during the gig with a disposable camera. You could tell Weckl was a hero of his.
Me, my finace', and some friends hung with Dave after the gig for a while. The little boy wandered his way up to talk to dave with his older brother. He had a pair of Dave's Vic Firth signature sticks. He had asked dave if the sticks were good for him, so dave started to play the table while asking him how long he had played and what he was practicing at the time. Dave said he thought these (his own signature sticks) were too heavy for him and that he thought that he should get some lighter ones. Then dave proceeded to show the kid a proper double stroke, all the while joking and being very attentive to him.
I think the big difference between guys like Dave, Vinnie, and Dennis is.... Dave has a child. He knows how damaging it could/would be for a person in his position to give a negative experience to a budding mind. I know that these things make a big difference to a kid, because I was one of those young adults that got the bad side of a legend once too.
[img]eek.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Heard that. One of my points, exactly.Quote:
knows how damaging it could/would be for a person in his position to give a negative experience to a budding mind. I know that these things make a big difference to a kid, because I was one of those young adults that got the bad side of a legend once too.
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Agreed, Andy.
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You guys are 2funny. [FT & WM] [img]wink.gif[/img]
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Tombo - yes, I have heard similar to this also. At a clinic yrs ago in the mid[?] 90's, I overheard DC give a slightly dismissive attitude when asked what he thought about DW. Something like, "ahhh, yeah, he plays all that / a lot of sh@&$"... [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] Then he said something else [which I can't quite exactly rem verbatim], but I walked away
taking it that perhaps he thought DW's playing incorporated "too much thinking/thought"...? [img]graemlins/wonder.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thinking.gif[/img]
...You know, looking at that shot of Chuch w DC on the 3rd pg of the NAMM '05 thread...aww, DC is just a big ol teddy bear [who may have had a bad day or 2]! [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 25, 2005 03:11 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
Flamtriplet!
I almost spilled my coffee there,- Jeez, Your'e a funny guy. LOL.
-Have never met Chambers in person.
Have met Weckl a few times,- co-organized his 2 latest clinics here in Denmark. My experience?:
Cool, friendly, witty, down to earth.
Best "name" experience ever:
Virgil (All the times I have seen him)
Never a question too stupid (although they are there!!) Never an autograph too much to sign.
Always polite, and with a very down to earth attitude. Nicest guy you could run into.
Love the bit on the one video from the 2004 Montreal Drumfest where someone shouts out (after Virg RIPPED the drums): "How about the singlestroke roll?" -and Virgil replies: "I knew I forgot something!" (-while cracking a smile at the same time,-) and then gets behind the drums and demonstrates a singlestroke-roll-from-hell!
Yeeeehaaa!!
and the video is here! (2nd video from the top)
http://www.virgildonati.com/media_videos.php
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 25, 2005 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Jeppe Morgenthaler ]</font>
Actually...that was Dennis that kicked him when Dave wasn't looking, and then ran off. I think it was the same kid/situation that started this thread.
(joke in bad taste... but nonetheless a joke also)
Talking about Dennis and Dave, something just popped from my memory.
I remember an article (mag?) where Dennis was commenting on other musicians, and when asked about Dave, his response was about this: "He's just a Gadd with electronics."
Anybody also read this?
Weckl was an a$s too. while were waiting for Weckl to arrive at the clinic. He had begun assembling his kit wit the aid of a few photos. He arrives and see his stands up , drops his bags to the ground and starts bicthing that its all wrong. He arrived an hour and a half late and then says,"I;m hungry, I'm going eat and I'll be back in an hour. The clinic was in an hour and a half!. He shows 10 minutes early, set-ups + sound check was fast. Then his towel were aparently too small. We had to go buy him new towels. Then he only want an Italian cappucino..... tough crowd. Didn't appreciate his tone. Soooo fussy/
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can't believe this was not brought up before. Id say thats definitely a huge issue and explains a lot.Quote:
Originally posted by WecklsMechanic:
I think the big difference between guys like Dave, Vinnie, and Dennis is.... Dave has a child. He knows how damaging it could/would be for a person in his position to give a negative experience to a budding mind.
BUT...
...was he wearin' his signature shoes & a black no-sleeve muscle T with his own pic on the front [complete w mullett] on it?
No?!
Ah, well, then he's OK... [img]wink.gif[/img]
[OK, just kidding of course... [img]tongue.gif[/img] ]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 26, 2005 11:07 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
While on the subject of offensive behaviour...
Vinnie, Dave, Simon Phillips, They've all had mullets at some point...
at least Dennis only ever had the cap 'n' strands thing going on....
it's unfortunate how some people idolise and idealise great musicians ..seems it can't be avoided.
i'm so grateful for the contribution to my life of so many great artists but realistically they couldn't have done it if it wasn't there to be done so to speak.
...if my finger gets ripped off in a car accident no amount of musical skill is going to get that finger reattached i need a skilled surgeon and i wont care if he's the biggest arsehole in the world as i'll be under general anaesthetic and if his psychological problems lead him to overcompensate by performing the best surgery ever done i won't mind a bit.
the whole business of celebrating our heroes is so dangerous for THEM to !!
allowing someone to act like an arsehole just because they are rich or talented has caused so much trouble it seems.
or allowing someone to act like an arsehole just because they adore you likewise is damaging.
hmmmm
i've occasionally had people try to "worship" me over the years ("poor deluded fools") ;p and it's always made me feel a "this is so wrong" kind of vibe. but i've seen others play it to the hilt. milk it for all it's worth. and now we all have our reward.
i guess in the final summing up i need to think carefully about what i'm doing and why i'm doing it and who i'm doing it to [img]wink.gif[/img]
sorry if this seems a little twee but i'm just running through it as best i can [img]smile.gif[/img]
this thread like so many threads here gets me thinking ...
then theres the thing where people love to cut you down just because you stand out ...damn theres no end to it people are at one time the best and most f*@ked up things around.
oh well live and learn [img]smile.gif[/img]
Preach it, man. Gotta love your truth & honesty, MSCearly.
Dig it.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
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But to end on a lighter note, relating to what Andy said...Gregg also had 1 of the most "worthy of being cited" mullett awards [img]wink.gif[/img] ...[it's OK; he's a great player, & that was then...many were caught up in the craze]...
But in the shadow of do's like Aldridge, Coury, & Bobby Rock's, those mullets seem tame & completely overshadowed by comparison... [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Oh dear, we've been there b4, & I've gone there again...
OK; Laugh already, will ya... [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thinking.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 26, 2005 11:25 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>
I don't know how the wolrld of hairstyles is going across the pond there but in the UK the mullet is starting a resurgence...
Alarming.